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from companies with investments where we think
the risk is too pronounced and the actions being
taken are not sufficient—companies who are not
on their journey, not on their path. Third, by more
proactively, more directly investing in the investments,
companies, solutions that benefit from this transition,
that are part of that getting to the green.
With a mixture of those three, with a lot of
trepidation on my part, with lots of uncertainties,
that’s how hopefully we’ll get there.
Why does implementing an ESG strategy
matter and how will returns be affected?
Dafria:
Sometimes, the debate on ESG tends to
be very black and white, with a very moral sense. I
am fond of saying that it’s 50 shades of green that
you should be thinking about. It’s not quite black or
white. There is a spectrum.
ESG is not a moral statement on my part as an
investor. It’s a risk management statement on my part
as an investor, that there are risks, and how do we
measure them? It’s somewhat not dissimilar to, “Well,
we will be looking at risks of companies going bust.”
No one will ask me the question, “Well, why do
you analyze risk of companies going bust? How will
it impact the returns?” We are firmly of the camp that
we practice ESG. The way we practice it is with the
intention of enhancing our risk-adjusted returns.
Will we get it right every time? No, clearly, we
won’t, especially on a topic such as ESG, where the
funnel of uncertainty is wide. We are looking to do
it because we think it’s in the best interest of the
customers whose money we manage.
Where are U.S. insurers on their ESG journey
versus their European and Asia-Pacific
counterparts?
Foley:
They’re probably behind, but making a very
concerted effort to catch up. I remember sitting in
CIO Eric Kirsch’s office at Aflac a few years ago, and
he brought up ESG as one of the emerging issues and
talked about that exact difference in where they are
in their journey.
No industry has more to gain or lose from
climate change and weather extremes. Insurance
companies—they’re insuring wind, and hail, and
floods, and all sorts of things that, clearly, they have
an economic impact. Forget about the social aspects
of it, or the environmental aspects of it; from strictly a
business perspective, it makes sense.
BEST’S REV
2022
The challenge is insurance companies get paid to
make long-term promises, and long-term assets are
bought to fund those long-term liabilities. You can’t
snap your fingers and turn the Queen Mary and wash
out all the ESG investments and suddenly restructure
for a myriad of reasons that people who understand
managing insurance assets understand it takes time.
There are major challenges. For example, there’s
no standard by which to judge. There’s no numerical
score. It’s challenging for insurance companies. They’re
motivated, they have the right ideas to do it, but the
devil is in the details as far as implementation goes.
Is there a way to quantify the ESG component
of a particular investment?
Foley:
There are people who want to sell you data
that has a score attached to it. If it was that simple,
it would be great, but people disagree on how to
measure. It’s challenging. When you have a portfolio
that’s the size of some of the global insurers’ there are
a lot of assets and a lot of facets to each one of those
assets to see where they line up on an ESG spectrum.
It’s a very difficult problem.
For insurers, are the results worth it when it
comes to ESG investing?
Falchuk:
When I talk about ESG investments,
I have some folks who say, “Yeah, those are great
returns, great investment opportunities,” and others
who say, “No, the returns are not equal to the more
traditional sectors and investments that are less
positive on the ESG scale.”
There’s subjectivity to it still. There are some things
we can agree, probably not a great thing, from an ESG
Stewart Foley
Insurance AUM Journal
Asset Management & ESG